Eminent Domain and Donald Trump
Posted on September 20, 2016 by Robert Ringer — Comments (71)
One of a handful issues I have with Donald Trump is his appetite for eminent domain. Whenever you watch a tear-jerking eminent-domain story on television, it serves as a grim reminder that we are not, by any stretch of the imagination, totally free. So now that an eminent domain practitioner is about to become president of the United States, it’s a good time for all of us to go back and review the fundamentals of liberty.
When it comes to the question of eminent domain, we must always remind ourselves that there are only three possible ways to view property:
- Anyone has a right to interfere with or take anyone else’s property whenever he pleases.
- Some people have a right to interfere with or take the property of other people whenever they please.
- No one has a right to interfere with or take anyone else’s property — at any time — without his permission.
In number one, I’m talking about lawlessness and the absence of a generally accepted code of conduct. In virtually all countries of the world, governments at least make a pretense of trying to prevent blatant lawlessness.
Obviously, some governments do a better job at this than others. Your property is a lot safer in, say, Australia than it is in Kenya. But regardless of the geographic location, it is the government’s primary job, at least in theory, to protect the lives and property of its citizens. In fact, many would argue that this is the government’s only legitimate function.
Number two is where eminent domain comes in. For example, politically well-connected real estate developers are often able to get the government to use force to take people’s property. The government then unilaterally decides how much to pay the owner of the property for the involuntary sale.
Likewise, all redistribution-of-the-wealth schemes are examples of taking one person’s property and giving it to another without the property owner’s permission. Given that this is, on its face, an uncivilized action, it would be fair to say that all countries today are, to one extent or another, uncivilized.
Finally, we get to number three: No one has a right to interfere with or take anyone else’s property — at any time — without his permission. While this is unlikely to become a reality anytime soon, anywhere on this planet, it is the standard that all civilized people of goodwill should use as a guide to their actions.
Put another way, the most fundamental rule of liberty is that no one has any right to interfere with or take anyone else’s property at any time — which includes his body and everything he owns — regardless of the rationale used. The usual excuse given for taking someone’s property by force is that it’s for “the overall good” of the community or society. The reality, however, is that it’s usually in the best interest of some real estate developer (who makes money by building on the poached property) and the government (which makes money from the property’s increased tax base).
People inflicted with that serious mental disorder known as “socialism” would have you believe that freedom and property rights are two different issues, but don’t allow yourself to buy into this warped argument. Property rights are just a subcategory of freedom.
It is morally self-evident that every person has a right to enjoy all of the fruits of his labor without interference from anyone else. When a person’s property rights are violated, his freedom is violated. Period. Compassion for one’s fellow man — which is a noble emotion — is a totally separate subject that should not be allowed to obscure the liberty axiom that property rights are sacred.
Plain and simple, Natural Law requires that liberty must be given a higher priority than all other objectives. Once we get that little issue squared away, we can do a much better job of helping those who are truly in need and truly unable to help themselves. First things first — and liberty always comes first. Eminent domain is tyranny, not liberty.
C’mon, Donald, if you’re smart enough to figure out that Barack Obama was born in the United States (cough, cough … no comment), you’re smart enough to figure out that eminent domain is anti-freedom.
At this point I don't think most Americans care if BHO was born in America or not.It doesn't take away from the point that he is a crappy president and has done many (unamerican) things during his 8 year tenure.
On the eminent domain issue you are correct.I guess the main victims were the North American Indians who were here first.The government had to write such a clause to defend action vs the Indians which of course has been used by real estate developers,the government,etc. ever since we became a country.
I guess it is more proof that the guy who came up with the statement "That Life's not fair" is definitely a Confusious.
Some Americans like Trump, were looking for a loophole to get him out of office and nip it in the early stages of his 8 year tenure.. i also was hoping that it was true, so we could send him back to Kenya sooner than later
The Indians didn't claim to own the land. They taught that the land cannot be owned. That doesn't justify what some people did, but it does make it different from the situation where someone actually bought the right to control a piece of land, and that was taken from him against his will.
It wasn’t as if the Indians said, “Oh Hi, come share with us.” The acted as if it was their land since they were occupying it, and killed to protect what they believed as their rights. It was doubt that it was all a one-way street. Atrocities were committed by BOTH sides. But, I do believe that maybe the White Man spoke with forked tongue too often. And yet, the world changes. That one cannot dispute. And will continue to change. Change is the name of the game. Change is the one constant. (Now an “Indian” can be only 1/8th Indian blood and get a check from the Govt every year. My belief is, however, that was them back then, Indian or Black, and has NOTHING to do with people now. People living NOW are owed NOTHING! Zero, as in Zorro!
I especially agree that what happened then has nothing to do with us. If I were 1/8 Indian, I'd want to be enrolled in a tribe for reasons that have nothing to do with government checks. It would be an acknowledgement of my heritage.
Perhaps it is overdue for anyone who objects to eminent domain to recognize that it is enshrined in the fifth amendment.
Yeah yeah, IF we lived in an Ideal World, but we do not.
Yes, my father built our house on our property, and we were free to use and do with it anything we wished. Over 60 years, more or less, THE TOWNSHIP called the shots, and if the code not lived up to, they could and would lock you out of your own property.
At this moment I live in what was a good compound in the Philippines, UNTIL a relative began building a duplex to house 4 adults and 5 children, their building even touching the wall of my outside kitchen and carport! Now there will be noise, and nothing I can do about it except to stand the expense of another move.
To repeat, we don't live in an ideal world, neither here nor back in the States.
This is why they say "good fences make good neighbors"
Once upon a time (which could be a lead line in a "fairy tale" but–I'm afraid–also the concept of "eminent domain" For far too many people, the term "eminent domain" comes with a "few" caveats….PLUS (or maybe with "some exceptions noted….) a few "but's". Originally, it was a "stand-alone" principle, but no longer. We now must SHARE our property rights with some persons having the unusual name of "the common good." My question IS….."good for whom?"
At some point in our economic history, "A man's property is his alone." Sorry, folks…..we NEED to take into account the good ole "common good". One good Q might be…."WHOSE COMMON GOOD???"
A lot of issues come down to this basic philosophy. For instance, any mutual exchange is
beneficial to both parties. When the government decides that it is illegal for a worker to work for less than the minimum wage, it is nonsensical but politically attractive (for those who have jobs) to think they're going to get a raise, while the economic cost of lost jobs and investment aren't seen
Reminds me of the "line drawing game" from an early RR book. While I agree with premise # 3 in general, as many would I suspect, how many of us would still agree if the said "theft" of property benefitted us ? Where do we draw the line in what is right and wrong in that case?
Real and personal property are elements of individual sovereignty. One's labor is also property and no one has the right to the fruits of that labor without the owner's consent. Personal income tax on labor is fundamentally immoral and evil and freedom loving people should not tolerate it. In fact, taxing labor is akin to involuntary servitude – slavery.
The fight to win the hearts and minds of the masses begins with this argument and should progress to imminent domain, confiscatory "Rico" statutes, bail and bonds, liens and seizures etc.
Not so fast- those"victims" of eminent domain (especially those in Manhattan and Atlantic City) became overnight millionaires and were paid fortunes for the crappy properties they owned. Wish I could be exploited that way…….
millionaire or not, these people had their property taken from them, and they did not wish(in many cases) to move. They were happy with the location they had chosen to live and raise their families.So, your argument that this is ok because they were paid well is silly.
Stealing a person's property is not right, even if you gave them 2 , 3 , or 4 times what market value says its worth.
The phrase "the greater good" is most terrifying to me, and I cringe with painful spasms when Bill O'Reilly says it. It is nothing more than an excuse to take the rightful property of others and/or to subjugate the individual to the group. It is equal to "it takes a village". Which, I believe, is why the founders created a republic rather than a democracy. I am always in awe of their wisdom and knowledge of both human nature and government nature.
May God save our Constitution.
" I am always in awe of their wisdom and knowledge of both human nature and government nature. " On the one hand they did some awesome things but on the other hand, if you were not a white male, the Constitution offered little or no protection. Keep it real!
Avery, the Founders were not big on the Constitution – period, as they knew any document that gave powers to the State (no matter how "limited" at first) would metastasize into a disaster, and Amerika 2016 is living proof of that. Those initial Founders who supported the Declaration of Independence DID understand human nature and govt. nature – hence their opposition to a Constitution.
Of course "greater good" is in the eyes of the beholder and therefore an individual decision. Progressive fools are fond of claiming "benefits to society", but there is NO such animal. It is a group of individuals that have unique needs, desires, priorities, etc. Property rights are essential to a free life, something the confiscatory statists/political criminals do not want, since they want to control us and steal from us, and if we don't cooperate, kill us.
Firstly, so long as we are compelled by force to pay property tax, we don't really "own" ; we rent.
Secondly, we aren't really "free" as long as we are forced to pay a personal income tax.
So then, is eminent domain really that much different than personal and property tax? Not really, it's just another layer of the collectivist onion……….I call it the Big Onion………. Moreover, The Great White Shark ( aka The Donald) could actually turn out to be quite the totalitarian. What do think President Donald will do if the American economy collapses into a Greater Depression?
How would Trump deal with riots, hunger, 70% real estate deflation, auto sales completely stalled, restaurants and hotels closing down left and right because of the lack of customers, all consumer spending ( both discretionary and non-discretionary ) falling off of a cliff, currency deflation followed by 25% per annum inflation, US10year bond rising to 3, 5, 12% and on and on the list goes ……
Be ready for America not to be made great again…. Be ready for just the opposite. And be ready for whatever authoritarian measures President Donald takes to "save America and make it great again".
EVERYTHING imposed from outside (by the State) is destructive of freedom. While I am no fan of eminent domain, it is a small issue compared to the larger slavery issues that you raise – property taxes & the personal income tax. As long as there is a state, you will have theft, coercion, murder and all other forms of criminal behavior, since that is what they do. They own nothing and produce nothing, so have to steal all from others. Whenever I hear one of these criminals referred to as a "public servant" (as happened last night while watching "Jeopardy" regarding the mayor of LA), I have to strain hard not to vomit. These people are criminals and serve no one but themselves and their cronies. In response to the latter part of your commentary, I think the forces that will lead to collapse (or at least severe downturns) are too strong to be held back by the Donald, or anyone else. So yes, we cannot be sure how totalitarian his administration might become (assuming Hildabeast is defeated), since I doubt he has plans to eliminate the Fed, property taxes or the income tax, which would be the necessary items if America were to have a resurgence into any semblance of greatness.
Jim, I hate to admit this, but I really think America can't be walked back from the abyss. I can't say precisely when the day of reckoning arrives, but it's coming just as surely as it came for Rome and dozens of other great civilizations; the day is coming just as surely as the sun rises and sets.
I'd rather have Trump in the White House than Hillary, because Hillary's very first instinct will be to assault the producers and reward the parasites. At first, Trump will hold off from confiscating gold, guns and other important goods. But in the end, Trump will do what every authoritarian does when they get desperate, viz., Steal, steal,steal and steal from the producers.
Let's hope the Great Collapse can be postponed four more years….. perhaps by that time Trump can rebuild the infrastructure, the Wall, juice the economy one last time and modernize the nuclear weapons systems enough to keep China and/or Russia from launching a first strike.
I do agree with your assessment, RS. I subscribe to many observers who do not fall prey to the lies of the lamestream media presstitutes and they all believe a Day of Reckoning is coming – most likely within about 5-10 years MAX. It is a sad commentary on the wreckage done by the progressive morons, but then again, they had lots of brainwashed dolts that allowed them to keep taking more and more freedom away and dictating this mess. Trump will act as an aspirin, and at least temporarily, relieve the headache. Hildabeast would be an immediate assault on all systems.
Having been on both sides of the issue of eminent domain here might be an example of how it becomes a necessity. A valley I now live in had only one waterway out and was surrounded by ridges that were from 400 to 1000 feet above it. As it was settled by people who bought smaller lots and installed their own sewer systems using septic tanks with drain fields there came a time when the ground could no longer continue to absorb the effluent and it began to go into the stream in the wintertime rainy season. The county was concerned about how the stream was becoming polluted and began planning how to abate the problem. As the final location was developed it was determined that it would have to go through many properties to get all the properties serviced. One land owner was adamant that the sewer line was not to go through his property. Avoiding his land was to add more than double to the cost of the project and greatly increased the complexity going from all gravity flow to several pump stations and increase considerably the maintenance costs. Of course, we could have just done that and let many others pay the added cost but that would have hardly been fair to the greater good. So we took an easement through eminent domain and put a sewer line through his property. We paid him a more than fair amount, restored the ground to the original condition, and it the process nearly doubled to value of his property.
Where there is growth, eminent domain is necessary in order to build cities, highways, and freeways. Most owners are paid beyond well, along with moving expenses. I would love to be right next to a freeway in Los Angeles that could use widening. If land is not just taken away from someone and is given just compensation then it's necessary for growth. To avoid growth we would have to stop immigration and adopt a zero population growth which I don't see happening. Big taxes with big gov. spending is redistribution of wealth and anti-freedom.
I always look forward to reading the comments from the Reality Seeker. The seeker almost always has intellectually sound responses, which in turn prompts one to dig deeper into the myriad of different scenarios that might transpire in this fast paced changing world we all find ourselves caught up in today.
I use a simple method of predicting the possibility that eminent domain and all the other grand theft schemes and scams might be utilized against our citizens at any given time in the normal evolutionary process of Amerika’s decline into the cesspool of third world status and it is based solely upon the size and scope of Government and the numbers of non elected bureaucrats and at this point in time, Amerika is bloated with unfathomable hordes of non-producing, corrupt, mentally unstable and undesirable outcasts of every persuasion to the point of literally imploding as they all dumpster dive for the last remaining scraps of greatness our society once proudly stood for.
I liken Amerika's plight to that of a modern day Humpty Dumpty and in the world of science, Humpty Dumpty has been used to demonstrate the second law of thermodynamics. The law describes a process known as entropy, a measure of the number of specific ways in which a system may be arranged, often taken to be a measure of "disorder". The higher the entropy, the higher the disorder, and after Humpty's great fall and subsequent shattering, the inability to put him together again is representative of this principle, as it would be highly unlikely (though not impossible) to return him to his earlier state of lower entropy, as the entropy of an isolated system never decreases.
Not even the world's greatest White Shark con artist; aka “Mr. Deplorable” the working man’s best friend (sic) can mend our great fall…You can bet your last dollar on the following simple axiom of life; "If something can no longer continue, it will stop." And Amerika reached its stopping point long, long ago.
Donald Trump and eminent domain is the last thing I am contemplating as the world turns and spins around our sun today.
I thank you for the compliment. But I cannot take credit for anything of much account found in my comments. Frankly, 99.9 percent of what I scribble out is merely what I learned from far better men than am I. And the men (and women) I learned from are superior writers —– and thinkers —– in every way. From time to time I point out some outstanding examples of truly great articulation.
"… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses" — Juvenal (circa 1st and early 2nd century AD)
The above quote written by a Roman poet is an example of amazingly well written work. And it demonstrates how superpowers devolve and collapse. …. amerika is declining for the very same reasons did Rome. I call the amerikan people, "Stolidus Americanus". Stolidus is Latin for dull-witted, dumb, course, brutish, foolish, inert, insensible, lout, oaf, obtuse, rude, slow, stupid and uncultivated. This characterization of the amerikan people is accurate for the majority. And that's why people like me look smarter than we are really. And that's why Donald Trump should be president, because people should get the government they deserve.
Robert Ringer has repeatedly stated that without the right education America is doomed. Yes. Agreed. And Donald Trump is not going to transform a bread-and-circus loving people into an erudite one. The best we can hope for is that DT will make a better Caesar than HRC….. but it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Trump become a Caesaropapist.
By the way, have you seen how sickly HRC is looking? Drudge has posted footage of her going cross-eyed. It's simply amazing how her poor health is being covered up.
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/mystery-going-hi…
There is something terribly wrong with Hillary. My dear cousin looked and acted the same way as HRC when she had a terminal brain tumor.
You need to watch this video by a doctor who explains what is happening to Hillary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpYIhs2ouRo
Yeah, I've been aware of possibility that HRC has Parkinson's. And nobody has been on that story more than INFO WARS. So, yes, Alex Jones and his team of reporters have been in one engagement after another against Hillary. Alex has become a major threat to the establishment. And it's not just Alex, alone, who poses a real threat to Washington. Owen Shroyer is young reporter who works for Alex. And I think his potential is enormous. Owen has a real future in the information business, if he plays his cards right. We can expect the entire InfoWars team to pound away on HRC. People from all over the world are feeding InfoWars great information like the above video. All Alex Jones has to do to make a massive impact on the alt-right news is stay away from the really outlandish conspiracy theories that in the past has suckered him……. don't be surprised if Alex is the guy who finds the smoking gun on Hillary's health problems.
You seem to realize Alex Jones has no credibility because of his outlandish conspiracy theories. So he's right about Hellary. But there are much better sources.
Alex Jones won't even believe the truth when it smacks him broadside the face. He still clings to the idea that the Twin Towers collapse was a planned demolition. It has been conclusively demonstrated this is emphatically not the case, but facts never bothered Jones.
Personally, I've not sided with anybody ( especially the official government explanation) on who, how or precisely why the 9/11 attacks took place.
Architects for 9/11 Truth is a group of over two thousand professionals who rightly question the official story. It seems highly unlikely that all three skyscrapers came down in a near perfect collapse in their own footprint. Building Seven wasn't even hit by a plane, yet am I to believe that it collapsed in a perfectly symmetrical collapse that even a "controlled demolition" man would have great difficulty in executing? There are too many questions that don't have solid explanations. Too many explanations that don't make any sense.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle of Alex Jones and the official government story. And that's why my advice to Alex (and Trump) would be to not get suckered into the more outlandish conspiracy theories at this point. Alex can do what Oprah did: I remember watching a few of Oprah's first shows. They featured the most outlandish people. Her show was a freak show, but she knew how to evolve. That's what Alex needs to do; lose the freaks and put all of the most outlandish conspiracy theories behind him. Move forward. Trump did the right thing by putting the Birther conspiracy behind him. In fact, Trump has been making almost all of the right moves for a month. I hope he keeps it up even of that means disowning any of Alex's past rants and conspiracy theories.
Your Architects group involves a couple of logical fallacies. Ad populum, fallacy from authority. It is normal for a building such as the Twin Towers to be DESIGNED to fall on its footprint. It's a safety thing.
I don't think Alex Jones will ever get it.
While I do not subscribe to Alex Jones theories of what happened on 9/11, I am POSITIVE the govt. story is completely false. Tower 7 was not hit by a plane, but was the victim of a demolition, and no jet fuel fire (if in fact, jets hit the North & South Towers) would cause them to collapse as they did. Flight 93 that supposedly crashed in Shanksville, PA was a hoax, and NO passenger plane hit the Pentagon either. There are at least 50 falsities in the govt. version, which by default, means that there is some conspiracy that occurred. Architects for 911 Truth is TOTALLY credible, and rather than posit an alternate explanation, just demands that an objective (NON-govt.) investigation be done, as they recognize the govt. version is a LIE! What we also know is that 9/11 ushered in massive compromises of individual freedom, invasions of privacy, and a great bolstering of the police state. Cui bono?? Answer that and you will have clues as to the causes of this tragedy. It surely was not some mediocre "pilot" Saudis with box cutters orchestrated by a kidney-diseased looney in a cave!!
See http://www.popularmechanics.com/9-11-conspiracy-t… http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design… http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/de…
The ideas you are promoting have been proven incorrect. It has been shown that Tower 7 DID collapse as a result of the collapse of the Twin Towers. It has been shown that a plane DID hit the Pentagon. As for massive compromises of individual freedom, to some extent, yes, but nowhere close to what has happened and been justified on other grounds since. And yes, it was mediocre pilot Saudis with box cutters orchestrated by a kidney-diseased looney in a cave that are responsible.
And please note: I personally witnessed many of these events by watching videos, over and over and over. The cause of all of it WAS the terrorists and the terrorists alone. It tries my patience to have to explain this stuff to credulous people.
Yes, you've quoted Popular Mechanics before; however, Popular Mechanics hasn't even come close to supporting ( or discrediting) any single theory. The divergent views of one group of experts vs another group has only raised more questions. I have subsequently reviewed highly credible evidence offered by those who held top security clearance(s) which support the theory of a treasonous plot by the Deep State to attack Americans on 9/11.
Furthermore, I know the U.S. government is capable of almost any evil deed. And so should you, Pat. So should you. So should everybody. Every American should read the declassified " Operation Northwoods". This treasonous act was proposed to JFK by none other than the Joint Chiefs and the U.S. intelligence agency(s). A mission was planned out the CIA to masquerade as Communist Cubans murdering Americans on U.S. soil for the purpose of angering the ignorant masses so they'd in turn demand that Washington go to war with Cuba ( and the U.S.S.R.). Which is what the crazed war pigs wanted in the first place. But they needed a pretext. And Operation Northwoods was it.
All of those men ( and there were many) who drew up and proposed Operation Northwoods should have been tried and shot for treason. Especially the generals. The ones who are still buried on US soil should be dug up and dumped right where Osama ( another CIA operative, by the way) was supposedly dumped in the ocean ( another lie).
There is so much evidence to support distrust in the US government. Of course, my very large step-family is Native America . And you don't have to explain to them that Washington is capable of any act of evil. Capable, willing and ready. And when the truth finally comes out regarding 9/11 it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Popular Mechanics runs a whole new story… And the old, official, story is toilet paper.
I can summarize your message very quickly. "I have made up my mind; don't confuse me with the facts." While it is true government is capable of great evil, that does not mean it committed THIS evil.
I don't see any point in discussing this with you. Popular Mechanics made an excellent case from a scientific and engineering standpoint, with specifics, unlike what you have said, which is nothing but unsupported allegations.
We've gone over this issue before, remember? You offered Popular Mechanics, and I offered some of the best intelligence sources available at the time. Every month more information is revealed and more former intelligence sources come forward. You can stay stuck in 2005, I'll continue to openly consider the facts as they come to light in what is one of the most pivotal events since the JFK assassination. 9/11 is as big as Peal Harbor. And there's plenty of evidence that the US government knew the Japanese were going to attack America sometime and somewhere. It look like the US government actually pushed the Japanese by cutting off their oil supply. If somebody cut off the US oil supply ( or even threatened to) Washington would consider that an act of war….. FDR and his administration knew something was coming. The US didn't attack itself, but the Deep State knew what to expect from the Japanese…. Likewise, it is not an unreasonable theory to conclude that somebody knew ( and perhaps facilitated) the 9/11 attacks. ….. Dr. Paul Craig Roberts ( aka The Father of Reaganomics), who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to investigate and audit the CIA has written extensively on this subject. Dr. Roberts held the highest security clearances and has extensive, first-hand information on just what goes on behind the Washington Curtain. But I don't need him or any of the other sources I've listed as a commentor on this blog for the last eight years and in other places before that. I have my own family members ( some high ranking military) who have taught me from my youth what evil goes on behind the Curtain and how mankind has been a heartbeat away from being wiped off the surface of the earth. The very fact that mankind is still here leads me to believe that God's finger has prevented a man-made Armageddon. Something has prevented the most important members of the Deep State from taking an elevator down a mile below the surface to one of the Top Secret Noah's Ark installations; and then launching a series of biological, electronic and nuclear attacks ( the type of nuclear attacks that kill people but leave buildings intact) which " for the greater good of the earth eliminates a few billion people"…..
Yes, there are eugenicists who believe strongly enough that a massive die-off of humans is necessary for the earth's ecosystems to continue. There are also generals who believe that Russia and China must be neutralized. There are politicians who want a Brave New World.
And the US Deep State has/had the motives, opportunities and the means to execute the most unbelievably evil operations throughout right down to this day.
I hope Donald Trump is ready on Monday night to perry and counter attack anything that Hillary and the debate moderator throws at him regarding 9/11, the Birther theory and the Alt-right
Donald, if you're smart, you'll disown and disavow the conspiracy theories, because stolidus amerikanus can't handle the truth.
It's like I said. There is no point in discussing this with you. We can be well apprised of the dangers of current government without wallowing in these conspiracy theories. You may not have a high opinion of Alex Jones, but for my money, you're cut from the same cloth. Talking to you about this is a waste of time, and I don't have the time to spare. And then there is the kitchen sink approach you are taking. Trying to reason with you would take so much time my head would spin. At this point, it doesn't matter who assassinated JFK, not in the broader scheme of things. You aren't going to convince me with empty allegations, about any of this, and I hope everyone else has the sense not to be convinced either.
And yes, there are those who think human beings are a scourge, and I am thankful to God for preserving us.
Now please spare me your rants. There is no point in me talking to you about this.
Pat, I don't write, rant or reason for your benefit. Just how foolish do you think I am? What I do I do for me – here, anyway. I fully understand that most people have no idea what Operation Northwoods was; nor do they have any clue the meaning that the Operation was "authorized by the Joint Chiefs" . Or what that implies 55 years later.
Authorized means the operation to kill Americans in places like Miami and Washington D.C. was approved by Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer and the other members of the Joint Chiefs. Do I have to hold you by the hand and walk you through and then spell it out? M.U.R.D.E.R…..TREASON…..FALSE FLAG….
This is not a conspiracy theory. It is a declassified fact. This declassified document along with many others proves beyond any doubt that powerful men ( who were part of the "Greatest Generation") were ready, willing and able to murder American citizens on American soil.
Only a dimwit or somebody in denial cannot extrapolate what went on 55 years ago and what it means for America now and going forward.
Pat, do you really think that I'd write about anything top secret that's current? My advice to you is keep on reading Popular Mechanics and telling yourself that all these conspiracy theories are a bunch of nonsense. And the US government would never have a hand in 9/11 in any way whatsoever.
So if you write for your own benefit, why are you directing your remarks to me? Anything that was authorized by the Joint Chiefs 55 years ago is IRRELEVANT today. You don't get membership in the Joint Chiefs without attaining some age. Those folks are long dead. And evil doesn't just cling to one group. It is everywhere. So there is absolutely nothing to extrapolate! Get it? No. You really want my opinion about you? You're BEING a dimwit, because you keep harping on stuff that is long gone, not related to anything today, as if it matters today. Only EVIL matters. Evil is much larger than a conspiracy more than a half century long gone. My point about 9/11 is that regardless of how evil the American government is, it does NOT mean that those people committed THAT evil. And the evidence shows otherwise.
One of the things that really urps me about some people, particularly many libertarians, is that they think only Americans are entitled to live in freedom. They think we don't have any business helping anyone else to achieve freedom. If it is in our national interest, we should help restore or bestow freedom on others. If it is not in our national interest, we lack the resources, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't care.
Pat, I do have a high opinion of Alex Jones. And I wish you well. I do write for myself and for nobody else, but that doesn't mean I don't wish goodness for others who happen to read or comment here. I like the back and forth of debate. Nothing personal and no offense.
Finally, Gen Joseph F. Dunford ( the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs) is no better than his predecessors. And that's all I'll say about that Obama appointment. Man-made government, by its very nature, is evil — sometimes greater and sometimes a lessor evil—- including the Joint Chiefs. I'm unwilling to discuss current, specific, publicly, unknown information — regarding recent or ongoing events. I consider 9/11 too recent. Too much information is still classified. This means we cannot really have a meaningful point by point discussion. But I think I've established beyond a shadow of a doubt what evil the Joint Chiefs are capable of doing. The current proof of government evil is legion. An individual just has to use inductive and deductive reasoning and keep his eyes open.
Finally, decades before Edward Snowden revealed how the US government was/is spying on its own citizens, Alex Jones and others were sounding the warning — and being mocked by intelligent people like yourself. In the end, the government is almost always proven to be plotting, spying and killing it's own citizens.
9/11 is not a matter of if, but a matter of to what extent the US Government knew and facilitated the murder of its own citizens.
Alex has done a lot of good work, even though he goes too far afield at times. I think that without somebody like Alex who is willing to hit the barbed wire fence there would be a lot more government secrecy. Alex may not be perfect, far from it, but he's one worth far more than a thousand believers in the US government.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time and energy for debate, especially when it looks like the person I'm talking to has bought into a certain measure of nonsense.
In spite of how evil the Joint Chiefs might be (or certain members, not necessarily all of them), there have been far more evil regimes. Those that killed millions, for example. And what deceased Joint Chiefs did really has no bearing on what Joint Chiefs are doing today. You can count on any Obama appointee being corrupt.
Alex is really NOT the best in calling attention to things. When you say off the wall stuff, people won't listen when you are being sensible. I don't pay any attention to him whatsoever, and whenever my husband and I run across some off the wall thing, we look at each other and say, "Prison Planet stuff."
I'm under far too much stress to enjoy this type of exchange. I learned long ago, that it is a waste of time anyway. I didn't have the time for this and I still don't. I wish you well. May you be blessed with discernment. Don't trust people who go for sensation rather than carefully sifting truth from fiction.
One of the problems with this society is how so many glorify outright despots – like FDR, for example. Here is a man who ran for and was elected to a vulgar FOUR terms in office by the American public, long before leftist TV wackos dumbed down our mass population.
Think about it, FDR's FIRST act in office in 1933 was to expropriate the people's primary store of wealth – their privately held gold coins and gold bars, in exchange for inflatable PAPER currency, under penalty of law for those who did not comply. Thus, precedent for Democrat Party "crisis manipulation" of the people for its own power grab enhancement was born.
Roosevelt, as suggested above, taunted the Japanese to attack U.S. forces and property at Pearl Harbor. One of the evident motivations for doing this was to pull the U.S. out of the (not so "Great," as Demos would have us believe), depression, something all his bureaucratic "make work" programs abysmally failed to do and he had every right to feel embarrassed about.
Finally, Roosevelt, on dreadful advice from members of his Yalta Summit Conference team, including subsequently convicted communist party member Alger Hiss, gave East Berlin and the entire Eastern European block to Stalin and the Commies, thus perpetrating over 40 years of "cold war" intrigue and mass suffering, over there, and the escalating of the over the top war machine (Military Industrial Complex) at home.
My point is, starting with, let's say, the election of Woodrow Wilson, have the American people won one single election, given how we are just about bankrupt now as regards retaining even a trace of those freedoms and liberties we used to proudly proclaim as an example of "democracy at work," for the rest of the world to emulate?
Please don't get me started on Woodrow Wilson, viz., the demon who helped yolk Americans with the personal income tax. And if that wasn't bad enough, WW helped to establish the Federal Reserve. Then, of course, after making an election promise to not untangle America into a war, WW got America involved in WWI.
I repeat: the very nature of government is evil. Government can be counted on to lie, spy and murder its own citizens. This is why "a necessary evil" like government must be chained tightly by an educated, sceptical and distrustful public. Never trust. And always verify.
Bobby, I hope you enjoy the debate. I know it's mostly political circus, but this election is more critical than any in our lifetime…..
If Trump doesn't get to choose the Supreme Court, make a deal with Putin, discontinue the bad trade deals and put a stop to the flood of immigrants, then the American Empire is going more quickly become a very nasty place to survive in.
I believe implicitly we get the baboon we deserve(trump),just to update RR sorry to bust your balloon the developers have humbled themselves and now inherit the earth like the BIBLE promised.In SYDNEY like in KENYA property rights have been violated and the owners have been well and truly short changed all for the greater good and these poor folks had the misfortune of living in the way of the highways.Another issue has been the banning of grey hound racing due to cruelty to other animals and the dogs,this was an arbitrary decision and a lot of well meaning folks have had the carpet pulled under their feet and poverty stares them in the face,so much for liberty and rights.To be clear I am neither a punter nor do do I have a dog in this fight.DUBYA vomitted on the Japanese leader ,maybe he was on his death march all those 16 years ago the mind boggles
To be quite honest, eminent domain in plain, simple, terms, is tyranny. There's really no way to get around it. Anyone who says otherwise is a just A Big, Plain, Fat, Liar. This is an easy argument, and therefore it is not that difficult to understand.
Property tax is the flip side of eminent domain. If you don't pay the rent, you are evicted into the street. No compensation, let alone just compensation. The possibility of increasing property tax revenues is behind many exercises of eminent domain. If you don't like eminent domain, then get rid of property tax. It's unconstitutional and contrary to the federal land patent laws. I'd fight it if I could afford it, but I can't even afford the taxes, let alone the cost of fighting it. I expect my disabled husband and I will eventually be kicked out into the streets and we will die there. Social security isn't enough to pay for living expenses AND property tax. The English fought for allodial title (title that cannot be alienated); federal land patent laws provided for allodial title. Property tax makes us feudal serfs on the land. Without the right to impose any duty on the land, it doesn't exist. Two cases point to this conclusion (neither deals with property tax, but other types of control of property), and should be used to secure our right to allodial title: Summa Corp. v. California, Leo Sheep Co. v. US. Look them up.
I don't disagree with your premise that property tax pretty well obliterates the idea of property ownership, but I believe you meant to say that property tax is the complement to eminent domain. Were it not for the government's assumption that it has authority over what the individual can / cannot do with his / her land, and that it also has the right to impose infrastructure improvements on that land at its discretion, then there would be no "common good" obtained via eminent domain. My parents "owned" their home mortgage free, but my father used to comment that he was "renting" his home from the school system, as his taxes went from 500 per year to over 4000 per year, all for the sake of "the children." Who, coming out of a government school, still couldn't read at 6th grade level!
I did say what I meant. You, your father, and I are all on the same page. Eminent domain may be for the common good if they need to build a road, and someone's property is on the path they need to take. There is very little other excuse I can see for it. I resent being compelled to pay for government indoctrination centers that undermine parental discipline and teaching. It is a violation of my religion.
That is 'very sad, grim & terrible that you expect you and your husband to "die in the streets" homeless because you can't pay your property tax. No offense but if this is really the case, you need to work now to improve your prospects, earn more income, sell asserts, find a benefactor to make some arrangement etc. Heck even a reverse mortgage, which in general is a terrible idea, would be ideal in your desperate case if you have absolutely no other options. If this is the case perhaps consider to get off the internet and get busy to save your @$$!! Best wishes & may God bless & protect you.
Oh how easy it is to pontificate from afar! We have no prospects for earning money. One of us is disabled, and hasn't been able to find work for years. The other has to care for that person, and not able bodied enough to work either. Both of us are elderly. We don't have any assets that are worth anything. Our house would never qualify for a reverse mortgage. We have nothing to save; we are squeaking by on SS, and it's not enough to cover property tax as well. IN OTHER WORDS, blame the VICTIM of an unconstitutional tax that puts elderly, sick people on the street. Right.
Go find another way to squeeze blood from a turnip. This tax should never exist in the first place, and taking everything someone has because the government already bled them dry with this tax and others, is simply WRONG. We don't owe a pound of flesh to the government. They have no right to try to take it.
Remember what Jesus had to say about people who "God bless" other people while offering no real help.
Wow you're very touchy. Okay, so I should just agree with a total stranger in despair who insists she will die homeless in the streets? Why do you not want to seek a remedy to prevent your disaster? There is always hope . There is always a way. If you're libertarian you'd know that if you own your home outright, there are an endless number of agreements you could reach to have someone pay your property tax In return for equity when you die. Does that mean I'm in favor of the property tax? No. Furthermore, if you own your home it would be very easy for you to qualify for a reverse mortgage. I'm not in favor of such usarious contracts but if you have no other options it would allow you and your husband to get cash every month or a line of credit, and you would get to live in your home until you both died. Is that worse than dying homeless in the streets as you put it? No.
You don't quit, do you? Yes, we "own" our home outright, but really the government owns it. We are just renters. If we don't pay the property tax, we get evicted. So we may have more recourse than some, but there are lots of elderly, disabled people who DO get thrown into the streets by this unconstitutional tax. And no, it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to rob our heirs to pay this evil, wicked, unconstitutional tax. So stop suggesting that somehow the VICTIM has a DUTY to rob himself or his heirs to pay this nasty, evil, wicked, unconstitutional tax that is contrary to federal law and contracts. It's not your job to teach us how to be slaves, or help us enslave ourselves, so don't even go there. If you are a libertarian, you won't even try.
Since when do you have a right to demand that we bow to tyranny? If we find ourselves in that position, we will tell the world how evil it is. We will sue the socks off them. We can. We do our own legal work, so it costs us next to nothing. But it makes NO SENSE for you to be complicit in convincing us to BOW TO TYRANNY.
Also did you know that if a person is disabled their caretaker most likely qualities for financial payment from papa government. So you'd get paid for what you are already doing, helping your husband. Does that mean I'm in favor of all these welfare programs? In theory No, but since they exist and steal money from taxpayers our whole lives for this crap we may as well milk it for all its worth. And you will have more money. This is my 2nd constructive suggestion for you. Stop thinking every random commenter is against you. I am not againat you. I feel bad for your situation and I know people who have got a.reverse mortgage and I Leo know people who get govt money for caring for relatives. So don't tell me it .cant be done or is too complicated to accomplish. it is not.
I already looked into getting paid for taking care of him. It won't be possible without them collecting it back from our estate. That's not acceptable. And no, for reasons I will not detail, we would not qualify for a reverse mortgage. And once more, that would be them collecting a pound of flesh from us and/or our heirs. One way or another, they get their pound of flesh. I am not ascribing bad motives to you. You are pontificating from afar once more, and you do NOT know enough about our circumstances, to make "constructive" suggestions. They are vexatious. Once again, you are effectively acting like the VICTIM here somehow owes what is an unconstitutional tax, and it's the VICTIM'S responsibility to figure out how to sit still and let the government rob him blind. That dog don't hunt. The property tax is wrong. It is evil. Stop trying to enable me to pay a tax that is evil to begin with. You don't know enough of my situation to make USEFUL suggestions, so stop vexing me. I have too much else to deal with without having to endure your "constructive" suggestions.
The educrats wanted more students to come into the system so they can increase their, already, bloated budget. On the average, each child costs roughly around $8,000 per year to the taxpayers in that school district. Forget about the legality of whether these children have the right to be here, many inner city school districts graduate less than 50% of all enrolled students. I wondered if my kids, who are American citizens, can get a free education in Mexico or any where else in the world? It is back-breaking for us in the middle class. Something has got to give quick and fast.
I hardly would call it a "right" to attend public school. Public school is intermittent involuntary incarceration for the crime of being young. Who would want a "right" like that?
As they say, the author has a right to his opinion but never disclosed the facts:
1. Trump initially offered the property owner four times market value for her property plus lifetime occupancy in one of his luxury condos. The owner denied the offer.
2. The property owner, Vera Coker, never lived in the property which was a rooming house on commercial land next to Trump's casino.
3. Trump never acquired the property nor did the courts grant the power to the city to use eminent domain in the case.
4. The property sold in foreclosure 20 years later for half of what Trump offered. In the same year, Trump lost his casino in bankruptcy.
5. Trump is a proponent of the use of eminent domain but only as a last resort after negotiations have failed. By comparison, this is better than a candidate who excuses or denies their complicity in the abuse of power. But Trump was did not evil in this case but was over generous and believed in the free market.
If you think most owners are paid beyond well, I have a bridge to sell you. It's called London Bridge, and it's located in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. You get to cart it way, stone by stone.
Trump may end up capturing the state and economy if he wins the election, like Clinton will surely do and Obama and company has done, but at least he promises to support businesses and promises low taxes. Now about the recent Charlotte protests, as someone noted: whilst Africans starve on less than $2 per day, Leftist Liberal Progressive Pro-Hillary Clinton Democrat African American football players making over $1 million per year protest the evils of the USA…
I would be nice if more libertarians would write essays that a utilitarian like myself can understand. As it is I do not feel that Ringer has used very much logic in his argument. Catchphrases like " fundamental rule of liberty, morally self-evident, and Natural Law" need to have a compelling rational argument behind them. Otherwise it's like claiming "the Bible says so." I need a good reason why if my neighbor decides to start dumping his raw sewage right next to my property, I can't infringe upon his property rights and force him to clean it up or sell his land.
Mr. Ringer – Well said . . . . . but . . . .when you say "Property rights are just a subcategory of freedom," I have to disagree.
No, freedom is a subcategory of property rights. Self ownership comes first.
I am not a slave, I own myself; I own the products of my hands and mind.
To put freedom over property rights gives up the game from the outset.
Doing so allows the envious levelers to posture while they split property rights off from liberty.
I have long wished that once a home is fully paid for, property taxes no longer are assessed against it. This would promote stability in people's lives, beyond all this "flipping" houses madness, which just increases the property taxes of others living in that zone.
Re Trump becoming "the next president of the United States," the best source of information as to which candidate is on the fast track for success in this election is how the flow of money is going with the casinos that post a line on this race to the White House. With the major offshore book I just checked, Hillary The Hun is getting 66 per cent of the action, leaving Trump with just 34 per cent so as to be the 2-1 odds underdog at this time.
Time is short for Trump, but if and when he becomes the betting favorite, that momentum will be enough to get him there. But for now, all the speculation in the world that Trump is the one to beat is in direct conflict with where the "smart money" backing is going – in the other direction.
It's the situation in Puerto Rico in terms of tax cuts that makes me wonder if it is worth it to vote for Trump: tax cuts that are not well managed by politicians, just don't seem to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-mpuR_QHQ
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